'Montgomery02'
Index links to: Lead / Letter
Families covered: Montgomery of Ardrossan, Montgomery of Eaglesham, Montgomery of Eastwood, Montgomery of Thorntoun
[N.B. The review of this page in February 2015 resulted in some changes to the way that we have relied on different sources. We now give more precedence to TSP.]
| Robert de Montgomerie ('de Mundegumri') of Thorntoun, 1st of Eaglesham (d c1179) | |||||||||||||||
| (1) It is often indicative of there being uncertainties regarding the early generations of a titled family when even Burke's Peerage, not always the pickiest of sources, does not report those generations. BP1934 ('Eglinton and Winton') mentions this Robert and then jumps to his descendant, the undermentioned John of Eaglesham who was grandfather of the 1st Lord. BPGS2001 ('Montgomerie, Earls of Eglinto(u)n and Winton') does the same. We try to fill the gap but highlight the main issues of concern. To emphasise the uncertainty of these early generations, we show them in italics. (2) When sources conflict it is sometimes but not always reasonable to believe that recent sources have obtained information that was not available to earlier sources and so may be viewed as more reliable than those earlier sources. However, differences may arise from differing analysis & interpretation of the same primary sources (which varies not least according to the expertise & experience of the author) and differing reliance on earlier secondary/tertiary sources (which can be somewhat arbitrary). GH, the earliest of the sources we have used for this page, refers to several earlier works on the family (including William Anderson's 'A Genealogical Account of the Family of Montgomerie ...', 1859) whilst TSP refers to various sources including Sir William Fraser's 'Memorials of the Montgomeries, Earls of Eglinton' (also 1859). Our most recent source, 'BGM' (identified under the Main Sources recorded at the bottom of the page), refers to both Anderson & Fraser but we are not able to see how it compares GH & TSP as we have only a photocopied extract of it (pp101-111). (3) GH says of Robert that "Who he married is not known." TSP reports that "It has been stated that he married a daughter of the High Steward, but no evidence on the point has been discovered." BGM identifies her as ... |
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| m. Marjory FitzAlan (dau of Walter FitzAlan, 1st Hereditary High Steward) | |||||||||||||||
| (4) GH shows Robert (d between 1177 and 1180) as father of Sir John (a 1190) father (by Helen de Kent) of Sir Alan (+ Robert + William) with Sir Alan (m. ??, d before 1234) being father of Sir Robert (+ Sir John + Henry) with Sir Robert (dsp before 1261) being succeeded by his brother Sir John (m. ??, d c1285) father of the Sir John (a 1296) who m. Janet Erskine (+ Murthaw + Alan of Stair & Cassilis + Alan (dsp) + Thomas (a 1296) + daughter (m. Archibald Mure)). (5) TSP reports that Robert (a 08.1779) "is said to have been the father of" Alan ("according to Sir William Fraser, the next in succession"; who "does not appear before 1177" ; wife not mentioned) father of Robert (+ John who m. Helen Kent + Henry + Alan) with Robert ("No evidence of his marriage has been found" ; "seems to have died before 1260") being succeeded by a John "but it seems more probable that the John Montgomerie who apparently succeded was his son rather than his brother, as stated in the Memorials". TSP reports that the successor, Sir John (whose wife, according to the Memorials, "is stated, but without any authority, to have been a daughter of William Moray of Bothwell") who was father of John (+ Margaret m. Sir Archibald Mure) and also (assigned to him by Sir William Fraser) Murthauch, Alan and Thomas but of these there is no evidence that Murthauch and Thomas, both named in the Homage Roll, were sons, while Alan was more probably a grandson." Of that last John ("dead before 1328"), "According to Fraser" he m. Janet Erskine ("but no authority is given") and "probably had issue": Alexander + Alan (of Stair & Cassilis) + Marjory. (6) BGM shows Robert (d c1179) as father of Alan (+ William + Hugh) with Alan (a 1190) father of Robert & Sir John (Robert's successor, a 1180, m. Helen de Kent) father of Alan (d c1237) father of Robert (d c1260) + Sir John + Henry. 'OriginHistory' notes that "Anderson makes Sir John the son of Robert, although John calls himself 'Johannes filius Alani de Mundegumeri' in a charter of donations to the Abbey of Melrose, Even in this case Fraser's pedigree holds good." Note that this is the second time that BGM shows a John, son of Alan, succeeding his elder brother Robert. This makes us suspicious! BGM continues with that Sir John "said to have married Margaret, daughter of William Murray, Baron Bothwell" having issue: Sir John + Murthaw + Alan of Stair & Cassillis + Thomas with that last Sir John being father of Alexander by Janet Erskine. (7) Following TSP & BGM, we ignore the Sir John shown by GH as an intermediary generation between Robert and ... |
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| 1. | Sir Alan de Montgomery of Eaglesham & Thorntoun (a 1221, d by 1234?) | ||||||||||||||
| A. | Robert de Montgomery of Eaglesham (dsp by 1260) | ||||||||||||||
| Partly ignoring TSP's suggestion, and presuming that the following John was the 'Johannes filius Alani' mentioned by BGM (rather than a John of a later generation), we show Robert as succeeded by ... | |||||||||||||||
| B. | (Sir) John de Montgomery of Eastwood & Eaglesham | ||||||||||||||
| m. Helen de Kent (dau of Robert de Kent of Innerwick) | |||||||||||||||
| i. | Sir John de Montgomery of Eaglesham (d c1285) | ||||||||||||||
| Note that we are not following BGM's suggestion that there were 2 additional generations here (mentioned above). | |||||||||||||||
| m. Margaret Murray (dau of William Murray of Bothwell) | |||||||||||||||
| a. | Sir John de Montgomery of Eaglesham & Eastwood (a 1296) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Janet Erskine (dau of Sir John Erskine of Erskine) | |||||||||||||||
| (1) | Sir Alexander Montgomery of Eaglesham & Eastwood (a 1358) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Margaret (probably not dau of William Douglas, 1st Earl of Douglas) | |||||||||||||||
| (A) | Sir John Montgomery of Eaglesham (d 1401) the first of the continuous line given by BP1934 | ||||||||||||||
| TSP reports that John "is the first member of the family whose position can be ascertained with certainty, and from whom the descent is clear." GH identifies John's father-in-law Sir Hugh (d c1374) as son of Radulphus probably grandson of Radulphus (a 1205) son of Hugh son of Bryce son of Eglin of Eglintoun. | |||||||||||||||
| m. Elizabeth Eglinton (dau of Sir Hugh Eglinton of Eglinton) | |||||||||||||||
| (i) | Sir John Montgomery of Ardrossan, Eglinton and Eaglesham (b 1360, d by 1429) | ||||||||||||||
| GH does not mention John's marriage to Agnes of the Isles, identifying Margaret Maxwell as mother of Alexander, Robert, Hugh, Anne, Janet & Isabel. TSP reports both marriages, identifying Agnes as mother of Alexander, Robert & Agnes and mentioning also Joanna & Isabella without being clear who their mother was. BP1934 mentions both marriages without being clear who was mother of Alexander, Robert, Hugh, Anne & Joan. | |||||||||||||||
| m1. Agnes MacDonald of the Isles (probably dau of John MacDonald, Lord of the Isles) | |||||||||||||||
| (a) | Alexander Montgomery, 1st Lord (d 1470 or before 14.10.1465) | -- | |||||||||||||
| m. Margaret Boyd (dau of Sir Thomas Boyd of Kilmarnock) | -- | ||||||||||||||
| (b) | Robert Montgomerie, 1st of Giffen (a 1413, d before 1452) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Janet Murray (dau of Alexander Murray of Touch Adam and/or Polmais) | |||||||||||||||
| (c) | Hugh Montgomery | ||||||||||||||
| (d) | Agnes (Anne) Montgomery | -- | |||||||||||||
| m. (mcrt 16.06.1425) Sir Robert Cunningham of Kilmaurs | -- | ||||||||||||||
| m2. Margaret Maxwell (dau of Sir Herbert Maxwell of Carlaverock) | |||||||||||||||
| (e) | Joanna (Janet) Montgomery possibly of this marriage | ||||||||||||||
| ## Joanna is shown as wife of Sir Thomas Boyd of Kilmarnock. However, having regard to the marriage of Sir John's son Alexander, we accept the suggestion made by a contributor (PK, 28.11.08) that his wife was more likely to have been sister rather than daughter of Sir John. | |||||||||||||||
| (f) | Isabella Montgomery possibly of this marriage | ||||||||||||||
| m. Archibald Muir of Rowallan marriage not certain | |||||||||||||||
| (ii) | Alexander Montgomery of Bonnington (dsp? or ancestor of Montgomerys of Scotstoun?) | ||||||||||||||
| (iii) | Hugh Montgomery (d Otterburn 1388) | ||||||||||||||
| (vi) | daughter probably of this generation | -- | |||||||||||||
| m. Sir John Maxwell of Pollok (a 1388) | -- | ||||||||||||||
| (v) | Joanna Montgomery see note ## just above | ||||||||||||||
| m. Sir Thomas Boyd of Kilmarnock (d 07.07.1432) | |||||||||||||||
| (2) | Alan de Montgomery of Stair & Cassilis shown by TSP as probably of this generation but by GH & BGM a generation earlier | ||||||||||||||
| (A) | Sir Neil de Montgomery of Cassilis (dsp(m)) | ||||||||||||||
| (i) | Christian (or Marjorie) de Montgomery | ||||||||||||||
| m. John Kennedy of Dunure marriage not certain but possibly the route whereby Cassilis passed to the Kennedys | |||||||||||||||
| (B) | Alan de Montgomery (dsp) | ||||||||||||||
| (C) | John de Montgomery of Stair (d before 1363) | ||||||||||||||
| (i) | Marjory de Montgomery | ||||||||||||||
| m. Malcolm (son of Henry son of Fergus of Carrick) | |||||||||||||||
| (D) | Marjory de Montgomery | ||||||||||||||
| b. | Murthaw de Montgomery of Thorntoun (a 1296) ancestor of Montgomerys of Thornton & Innerwick | ||||||||||||||
| c. | Thomas de Montgomery in Ayrshire | ||||||||||||||
| d. | Margaret de Montgomery | J | |||||||||||||
| m. Sir Archibald Mure of Rowallan | J | ||||||||||||||
| C.+ | other issue - Henry, Alan (a 1239), William | ||||||||||||||
| 2 | William de Mundegubmri | ||||||||||||||
| 3. | Hugh de Mundegumri | ||||||||||||||
| A. | Egidia de Montgomery | -- | |||||||||||||
| m. Shaw Mackintosh (son (sb grandson?) of 3rd Earl of Fife) | -- | ||||||||||||||
Main source(s) (see here):
(1) TSP (vol 3 (1906), 'Eglinton, Montgomerie, Earl of Eglinton'), 'GenealogicalHistory', shown above as "GH" = 'A Genealogical History of The Family of Montgomery' (Thomas Harrison Montgomery, 1863, p42+)
(2) "BGM" (as used above) = photocopied extracts that we have from 'The Origin and History of the Montgomeries' by BG de Montgomery (1948, p102+)
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