'Montgomery01'
Index links to: Lead / Letter
Families covered: Montgomery of Arundel, Montgomery of Shrewsbury, Counts of Alencon, Counts of Belesme, Counts of Ponthieu
| TCP starts with Roger, father of the 1st Earl, and identifies Roger's wife as (likely to be) "Josceline, a niece of the duchess Gunnor." As reported on CZvar01, there is some confusion concerning the Duchess Gunnor and her sisters. If Roger's mother was Sainfrie, which (although we follow various sources in showing that to have been the case) is not certain, that would make Josceline his 1st cousin. If Josceline's mother was not Wevia de Crepon then Gunnor & Wevia's sister Sainfrie may have been her mother which would have made it impossible for her also to have been wife of the following Hugh. Clarity is not helped by the fact that there appears to be some confusion between the following Hugh and his son Roger. Indeed, 'GenealogicalHistory', combines the 2, showing Hugh as father of Roger, 1st Earl, by "Osberne's cousin, Josseline, the daughter of Tourode, Sire de Pont Audemer, whose wife, Weva Duceline de Crepon, was sister of Duchess Gonnor, wife of Richard sans Peur, the great-grandmother of William the Conqueror". However, TCP confirms that the father of the 1st Earl was named Roger. | |||||||||||||||
| Hugh de Montgomeri (d 1034) | |||||||||||||||
| m. Sibell (or Sainfrie) de Crepon (sister of Gunnora, Duchess of Normandy) | |||||||||||||||
| 1. | Roger (not Hugh), Sn de Montgomery (a 1028) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Josceline (niece of Gunnor, Duchess of Normandy) possibly dau of Wevia de Crepon by Osberne de Bolbec or of 'Wevia' (sb Duvelina?) de Crepon by Turulf de Pont-Audemer | |||||||||||||||
| A. | Roger de Montgomery, Governor of Normandy, 1st Earl of Shrewsbury & Arundel (d 27.07.1094, 3rd son) | ||||||||||||||
| m1. (c1052) Mabel de Talvas (d 02.12.1079, dau/heir of William de Talvas, Sn d'Alencon & Belleme) | |||||||||||||||
| i. | Robert de Belesme de Montgomery, Count of Belesme & Alencon, 3rd Earl of Shrewsbury & Arundel (b c1054, d c1132, 2nd son) | ||||||||||||||
| Robert's younger brother Hugh was the 2nd Earl. Various web sites show that Robert m1. Almadis, dau of Alberic, Count de la Marche, but this appears to be confusion with his brother Roger. | |||||||||||||||
| m. (before 09.09.1087) Agnes of Ponthieu (d before 1103, dau/heir of Guy I, Count of Ponthieu) | |||||||||||||||
| a. | William Talvas 'of Shrewsbury', Count of Ponthieu, Belesme & Alencon (b c1106, d 30.06.1171) | ||||||||||||||
| m. (1115) Aliss/Helie de Bourgogne 'Ela Borel' (b 1080, d 1142, dau of Eudes I Borel, Duke of Burgundy, by Maud) | |||||||||||||||
| Whilst the parentage of Helen/Alice (Ala/Ela) is well supported, eg. by TCP (Surrey), the following information on the successor Counts of Ponthieu comes from various web sites. | |||||||||||||||
| (1) | Guy II, Count of Ponthieu (d 1147) | ||||||||||||||
| Of Guy, 'GenealogicalHistory' just says "whose son succeeded". The following comes from various web sites. | |||||||||||||||
| m. Ida | |||||||||||||||
| (A) | Jean I, Count of Ponthieu (b c1140, d 30.06.1191) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Beatrice de St. Pol (dau of Anselme, Count de St. Pol) | |||||||||||||||
| (i) | William III Talvas, Count of Ponthieu and Montruil (b c1177, d 1221) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Alix de France, Countess de Vexin (b 1170, dau of Louis VII, King of France) | |||||||||||||||
| (a) | Marie of Ponthieu (b 17.04.1199, d 09.1250) | GHJSWY | |||||||||||||
| m. Simon de Dammartin, Count of Ponthieu (d 21.09.1239) | GHJSWY | ||||||||||||||
| (ii) | Adela of Ponthieu (d 15.11.1251) | ||||||||||||||
| m. (1178) Thomas de St. Valery | |||||||||||||||
| (a) | Alienor, Dame de Saint-Valery, etc (b 1192, d 15.11.1250) | GHJS | |||||||||||||
| m. (1210) Robert III, Count de Dreux et de Braine (b 1185, d 03.03.1234) | GHJS | ||||||||||||||
| (2) | John de Montgomerie, Count of Alencon (d 24.02.1191) | ||||||||||||||
| m. Beatrice (dau of Helie d'Anjou, brother of Geoffrey Plantagenet) | |||||||||||||||
| (A) | John de Montgomerie, Count of Alencon (dsp 06.05.1191) | ||||||||||||||
| (B) | Robert de Montgomerie, Count of Alencon (d 08.09.1217) | ||||||||||||||
| m1. Jeanne de la Guerche | |||||||||||||||
| (i) | John de Montgomerie (dvp 08.01.1212) | ||||||||||||||
| (ii) | Matilda de Montgomerie | ||||||||||||||
| m. Thibaut, Count of Blois | |||||||||||||||
| (iii) | Hele or Alice de Montgomerie | ||||||||||||||
| m1. (before 1205) Robert Malet, Sire de Graville | |||||||||||||||
| m2. )before 1220) Aimeri, Count of Chatelleraud | |||||||||||||||
| m2. Emma (heir of Guy, Sire de Laval, m2. Matthew de Montmorency (Constable of France)) | |||||||||||||||
| (iv) | Robert de Montgomerie, Count of Alencon (d(sp?) 1229 | ||||||||||||||
| (C) | William, Sire de la Roche Mabile | ||||||||||||||
| (3) | Adele | ||||||||||||||
| m. Jubel, Sire de la Roche Mabile | |||||||||||||||
| (4) | Hele (Ala or Ela) Talvas (d 04.10.1174) | HJY | |||||||||||||
| m1. William de Warrenne, Earl of Warrenne, 3rd Earl of Surrey (a 1147) | HJY | ||||||||||||||
| m2. (1152) Patrick FitzWalter, 1st Earl of Salisbury (d c07.04.1168) | HJY | ||||||||||||||
| b. | Rissa de Montgomery probably of this generation | H | |||||||||||||
| m. Roger de Berkeley (d 1170) | H | ||||||||||||||
| ii. | Hugh de Montgomery, 2nd Earl of Shrewsbury & Arundel (b c1056, d unm c31.07.1098) | ||||||||||||||
| Various web sites show that Hugh had an illegitimate son ... | |||||||||||||||
| a. | Ralph Montgomery of Cubley (Derbyshire) & Ecton (Northamptonshire) (a 1086) | Y | |||||||||||||
| iii. | Roger 'the Poitevin' de Montgomery (d 1123) | EGHJSY | |||||||||||||
| 'GenealogicalHistory' suggests that Roger was created Earl of Lancaster but TCP reports that this is erroneous. | |||||||||||||||
| m. Almodis (d 1116, dau of Adelbert, Count of Marche, sister/heir of Count Boson) | EGHJSY | ||||||||||||||
| iv. | Philip 'Grammaticus' de Montgomery (d Antioch 1099) | ||||||||||||||
| a. | Matilda de Montgomery (Abbess of Almeneches) | ||||||||||||||
| v. | Arnulph de Montgomery, lord of Pembroke, 'Cimbricus' (b c1060, d 1125) | ||||||||||||||
| m. (1101) Lafracoth O'Brien (dau of Murtagh O'Brien, Lord of Munster) | |||||||||||||||
| TCP reports that that Arnulf was "comitatus" of Pembroke, but was not created an Earl, and was banished from England but does not mention where he went. TSP (vol 3, 'Montgomerie, Earl of Eglinton') is unclear as to the parentage of the undermentioned Robert, 1st of Eaglesham ("the first of his name who settled in Scotland"), but notes that, if Arnulf was indeed Robert's ancestor, it was more likely that he was his grandfather and not, as is shown in some sources, his father. 'GenealogicalHistory' provides the intervening generation, reporting that Arnulph's only son was ... | |||||||||||||||
| a. | Philip de Montgomerie of Thorntoun (b c1101, to Scotland) | ||||||||||||||
| m. (by 1120) Margaret Dunbar (dau of Cospatric, 2nd Earl of Dunbar) | |||||||||||||||
| (1) | Robert de Montgomerie ('de Mundegumri'), 1st of Eaglesham (d c1179) | J | |||||||||||||
| m. Marjory FitzAlan (dau of Walter FitzAlan, 1st Hereditary High Steward) | J | ||||||||||||||
| (2) | Hugh de Montgomerie of Boudjesworth | ||||||||||||||
| m. Elizabeth Gordon (dau of Adam de Gordon) | |||||||||||||||
| (A) | Adam de Montgomerie possibly had issue | ||||||||||||||
| m. ?? (probably "an heiress of the family of Constantine, of Shropshire") | |||||||||||||||
| (B) | Egidia or Giles de Montgomerie | ||||||||||||||
| b. | Alice de Montgomery probably of this generation | Y | |||||||||||||
| m. Maurice FitzGerald, Lord of Maynooth & Naas (b 1100, d 01.09.1176) | Y | ||||||||||||||
| vi. | Matilda (Maud) de Montgomery | HJY | |||||||||||||
| m. Robert de Burgh, Count of Moreton/Mortain (in Normandy), Earl of Cornwall (a 1068) | HJY | ||||||||||||||
| vii. | Mabel de Montgomery | ||||||||||||||
| m. Hugh 'of Neuf Chattel', lord of Chateauneuf-en-Thimerais | |||||||||||||||
| viii. | Sybil de Montgomery | GHJRSY | |||||||||||||
| m. Robert FitzHamon of Gloucester (d 1107) | GHJRSY | ||||||||||||||
| ix.+ | other issue - Roger (dvp young), Emma (Abbess of Almeneches) | ||||||||||||||
| m2. Adelaide de Puiset (dau of Everard de Puiset) | |||||||||||||||
| xi. | Everard de Montgomery (chaplain to William Rufus and Henry I) | ||||||||||||||
| B. | Gilbert de Montgomerie (d 1064, youngest son) possibly father of ... | ||||||||||||||
| i. | Gilbert de Montgomerie (a 1083, constable) | ||||||||||||||
| ii. | Aimeria de Montgomerie | ||||||||||||||
| m. Reginald de Baliol (brother of Warin the bald, viscomtes of Shrewsbury) | |||||||||||||||
| C. | Mabel de Montgomery mentioned by various web sites | ||||||||||||||
| m. Gervase de Chateauneuf | |||||||||||||||
| i. | Hugh de Chateauneuf | ||||||||||||||
| D.+ | other issue (d before 1064) - Hugh, Robert, William | ||||||||||||||
Main source(s) (see here): 'GenealogicalHistory' = 'A Genealogical History of The Family of Montgomery' (Thomas Harrison Montgomery, 1863) with some input/support from TCP (vol XI, 'Shrewsbury', p682+)
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